The Inconsistency of Transsexuals

Feel free to push back and debate me on this post.  This is not a scientific post, but just my general impressions of the arguments and claims that I have read from transsexuals and transgendered individuals online, in articles, and in textbooks.  I’ll try to keep this short, to make sure my main thought and point of this post comes across clearly.

I think that transgendered individuals and transsexuals often make illogical inconsistent contrary claims.  At first glance, these two opposing claims seem to support one another but I believe on closer inspection they are revealed to contradict one another.

On the one hand transsexuals often argue very vocally that either sex or gender or both don’t matter.  They argue that you as a unique individual are all that matters and you are who you are, your sex or gender doesn’t matter so much.  Sometimes they are vocal in arguing against gendered labels.  Sometimes they argue that there shouldn’t be just 2 binary genders and that the world should be full of a wonderful gender spectrum of people.  They argue that it is your soul that matters, not your outward body, and so your soul is who you really are, even if your body does not match.  They strongly oppose gender stereotypes.  They argue people should not be confined to certain behaviors based on their genders.   They are against people being stifled and persecuted for not fitting into societal gender norms.

All of this sounds like a fairly powerful argument in favor of transgenderism and trans-sexuality.   But it is not the whole story.

On the other hand, the people getting the sex changes are the ones most entrenched in rigid gender stereotypes, not the people least entrenched.  Instead of being free from gender roles and stereotypes, they are the ones most in bondage to them.  They are the ones who claim strongly that “men are like this” and “women are like that.”  They are the ones lumping people into rigid categories of gender the most.  Therefore, if you are a sensitive nurturing gentle man who likes to dress well, you must really be a woman.  They are the ones who label themselves and other people the most strictly.  They are the ones to whom gender matters the most, not the least.  They think their bodies matter, so so so much, that they get massive surgeries to change their bodies to match up with what they say their soul is.

I am troubled by how blind so many people are to this bad logic.  The two views do not go together.  Please pick and choose one.  If you are against stupid gender stereotypes (as I am) then be the unique man that you are are be yourself even if you aren’t like most other men.  Don’t get a sex change!  Why do we have to make things so complicated in either trying to surgically alter our bodies, or trying to say that there are 5 genders?  Why can’t we just be who we are, who God created us to be?  If your soul is what matters most to you, then why are you so troubled with getting surgery to alter your body?  Why can’t you just accept your body as it is and realize that your body does not have to affect your soul and who you are?

I realize that transsexual arguments are more complex than this.  But these are the main messages I am soaking up from the transgendered community.  Can someone please help me sort this out?  Are transsexuals really this illogical and inconsistent?  It appears to me to be confusion on a mass scale.  If I’m wrong, please explain.  It may not sound like it, but I am ready to listen and hear you out.

If I followed the logic of transsexuals I would have gotten a sex change already.  Every book I read about marriage or gender, I am far far far more like the women than the men.  On all the gender tests I’ve taken it says I have a female brain, or suggests that I am transsexual.  I am very different from most other men, and much more “feminine” according to the cultural definition.  And yet, I have embraced that this is who I am, a man, albeit not the same type of man as the usual, yet I am still a man, and I feel free to be myself and enjoy life.  I don’t need to surgically alter my body to somehow be myself.  I give myself no credit for this, but to God and those he used in my life to help me sort these thoughts and feelings and beliefs out.  If I had had other guidance, I may have ended up getting that surgery one day.  Thanks be to God that he gave me good guidance in my life and freedom to be who he created me to be.

 

As an appendix – I am also wondering how transsexuals who remain attracted to the opposite sex (that is a man getting a sex change to be a woman but still being attracted to women), how does this fact not give them pause?  Is it a coincidence that so many transsexuals aren’t attracted to the sex, that would be the new opposite sex?  If you aren’t attracted to men, as most women would be, doesn’t this give you some caution that perhaps you are not truly a woman after all?   Homosexuals are what, at most, maybe 5% of the population?  It seems to me that most transsexuals I hear about end up claiming to be homosexual as well (like the cases of men becoming women but remaining with their wives because they are still attracted to women).  To me this is not coincidence but evidence that these men are suffering from gender confusion, and are not truly women after all.

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11 comments on “The Inconsistency of Transsexuals

  1. […] Read more from the original source: The Inconsistency of Transsexuals « Healing from Crossdressing […]

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  2. Cloudy says:

    Thorin,

    This is not an inconsistency in one individual, but the fact that there are multiple voices… each with a different view.

    Second, yes, the issue of most MTF transsexuals having been gynephilic, and mostly remaining gynephilic, is an item that most of them would rather not look at too closely, especially since they also transition so late in life… were quite successful as men for decades of career, marriage, fatherhood, etc. The fact that they are masculine in every sense, save the DESIRE to be feminine. But this is totally explicable if one understands that their need for transition and somatic feminization is a product of autogynephilia, the same autogynephilia that drives men to cross-dress. That in fact, most MTF transsexuals may be viewed as simply cross-dressers who have “taken it all of the way”.

    However, there is a minority of MTF transsexuals who are and always were exclusively or predominantly androphilic. They also happened to have been unusually feminine in behavior (girlish) from early childhood. It is this group of transsexuals from whom our culture has developed the trope “woman in a man’s body”… because they BEHAVE as though that were true.

    But that can NOT be said of the majority of MTF transsexuals, as you pointed out.

    You may wish to visit my blog to learn more of how all of this fits:

    http://sillyolme.wordpress.com/

    Regards, Cloudy

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  3. thorin25 says:

    Thank you for your civil comment Cloudy. Was not quite sure what kind of reaction I would get at first.

    I think what you said at the beginning is true, it could well be that this is from multiple voices, rather than 1 voice. (though I know on occasion I’ve heard both opposing views from singular voices).

    Based on just reading your 1 comment, it seems like you have a very refreshing logical approach to these matters (even if you and I would strongly disagree on what actions to take to deal with such feelings that men or women can have regarding their sexual orientation and gender).

    I checked your website, but there is so much there, I don’t know where to begin. Perhaps if you had a post or two that you would suggest me reading, that would help.

    Thank you!

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  4. Cloudy says:

    Thorin, I always recommend starting at the FAQ. It helps as an outline of the information and has links to expanded discussions that touch on the answers of the FAQ: http://sillyolme.wordpress.com/faq-on-the-science/

    There will always be those individuals who in their zeal to “belong”, will mouth several opinions gleaned from others, even when they are indeed, contradictory. However, the positions you comment on are generally speaking, from different philosophical camps within the so called “transgender community”.

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  5. thorin25 says:

    Thanks I will read that soon when I get some time

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  6. thorin25 says:

    I read much of your FAQ. It’s good stuff. Thank you. Your research about the 2 different kinds of transsexuals makes good sense to me, and makes good sense of my experiences of talking to others. Your explanation about the continuum of crossdressing to becoming a transsexual makes good sense. That’s what I’ve been saying all along, that crossdressing and eventually pursuing a sex change are not necessarily separate things, that enough years of crossdressing can bring a person to that point.

    It might be puzzling to you or others, that I can agree with your explanations on that FAQ, but still believe people should not get sex reassignment surgery. But you can read on my site more about my own views if you want. And I will keep an open mind and keep reading and learning about these issues.

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  7. Cloudy says:

    Thorin,

    to be very explicit and pedantic, I’m not doing research, not original anyways… I’m in the education biz, pulling together all of the scientific evidence into one place.

    I’m suspicious that you may be projecting motivations and beliefs onto me that I may not have. I’m no cheerleader for AGP TS transition. I’ve seen far too many folks with destroyed families and lives for that. The only issue we might have is that I don’t have any a priori moral objection to transition per se, only an objection to what and how it harms both the individual in transition, and to the greater harm it does to their wives. Children are more resilient… they can handle the transition part just fine… but the divorce always has some pain associated with it. On the flip side, I’ve seen the very real pain that the individual AGP TS experiences…

    Now, I doubt that you have given any great amount of thought regarding HSTS transition. There is never a wife or children left behind. Transkids always transition around age 20, so half are doing so as teenagers (I did myself.) At worse, parents and siblings are socially embarrassed, but only if they and their community hold negative attitudes towards the issue. But in those cases, the greatest harm is to the individual transkid, suffering emotional rejection and disappointment from her parent(s) from an early age. In supportive families, no one is hurt. (I speak from personal experience, as my mother long ago rejected me.) But transition is, for transkids, never a very big leap, given that they are naturally feminine behaving and often, appearing.

    BTW, it may interest you to know that when I got married to my husband, my father, a very thoughtful Christian, gave me away… and my uncle, a Methodist minister, officiated. Clearly, they understood… and clearly, my uncle HAD thought through the moral implications… given that he had known me all of my life. Sadly, he died about seven years ago, so I can’t discuss the issue with him now. But I know from a conversation with my cousin, that her parents had understood that I was “different” from an early age and supported my transition and later my plans for marriage. But, still robust at age 83, my father tells me that he loves me and that he is proud of me, each and every time we talk. As for children, I had two foster daughters, one of whom I legally adopted. They are very proud of their Mom.

    –Cloudy

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  8. thorin25 says:

    I realize it was not your original research, just explanations and theories you have pulled together. I didn’t mean to imply that I thought you came up with it all yourself. But very helpful nonetheless.

    I also realize that different denominations have very different views on transsexuality, and I wouldn’t be surprised if most churches just fear even thinking about the issue and don’t have views about it worked out. But that is somewhat understandable given the complex and confusing and very personal and even painful nature of these issues. On most things though I disagree with the modern Methodist churches, who have very different views now than I do on scriptural interpretation, view of Christ’s salvific work, views on sexuality, views on other religions, etc.

    I’m not trying to condemn you or harshly judge you, and you are most definitely right that I should study more on the first kind of transsexual you talked about, which you term HSTS transition. There is always more to learn. But at this point, I still believe it is the wrong move for kids like that to transition, and I say that having done a fair amount of research myself, religious reflection, and talking to transsexuals. We don’t need to get into an argument about that though. I do appreciate your candor and help thinking through these issues. I hope others in the transgendered community will hear your voice and not toss around contradictory ideas and bad arguments so freely.

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  9. Vivienne says:

    Nice to see you two getting to know each other!

    Thorin, your original point was transsexuals being inconsistent, and I think Cloudy has answered this point really well and better than I could. I have nothing to add.

    Where I think Cloudy’s blog has really helped me is that it has cut through the (deliberate?) clouding of the issue; the needless multiplication of terminology and pseudo-identity, and claims and counter-claims by various self-interested groups. It makes so much sense, even if it makes me feel a little worse about myself personally. I’ve blogged about this in my latest post, which you’ve probably come across already.

    I’ve been aware of this quote for some time, from the economist Thomas Schelling, about the fluctuating motivations of human beings. I’ve been meaning to share it with you, since I think it has considerable relevance to you and others who seek to quit crossdressing. In his 1980 essay “The Intimate Contest for Self Command”, Schelling was trying to understand the person “whom all of us know and some of us are, who in self disgust grinds his cigarettes down the disposal swearing that this time he means never again to risk orphaning his children with lung cancer, and is on the street three hours later looking for a store that’s still open to buy cigarettes… who spoils the trip to Disneyland by losing his temper when his children do what he knew they were going to do when he resolved not to lose his temper when they did it.”

    What Schelling encapsulates for me is how that rock solid determination can wither into capitulation after only a short time. Schelling’s words remind me that the stick is a much poorer motivator than the carrot as a means of changing behaviour. Schelling was able to eventually win his fight against cigarettes, but only after many failed attempts.

    Vivienne.

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  10. thorin25 says:

    Hi Vivienne, it’s a small blogging world 🙂 Funny connections that we were just writing about similar things and I didn’t realize it. I have to agree with Cloudy, and your post, that both you and I are like that type of transsexual. I’ve read too many blogs and stories of people online that started out as simple crossdressers with masturbation, and that turned into more “mature” crossdressing without masturbation, which then eventually led to transition. This alone is not reason enough to quit crossdressing for most people, but surely something good to think about.

    Your last paragraph talking about the quote is interesting too. When most people read my blog, they think I am suppressing all my crossdressing feelings and am only resisting it because I believe it to be sinful. And they think I am horribly oppressing myself because of a belief in a repressive God.

    But the opposite is true. My 2 main motivations are – 1. Not wanting CD in my life, because my life without CD is so much better and fuller and whole and real! 2. Not giving into CD out of gratitude to God for his forgiveness and love. It’s not that I’m resisting out of fear of God. But I’m resisting out of love for God, trusting that what he wants for me is the best thing possible for me, for my own flourishing. For me the carrot is primary, so to speak.

    The stick comes in, not out of fear that God will punish me, (though sometimes I foolishly fear that and have to remember that God is a God of grace who took the punishment for my sins already), the stick comes in in that I know whenever I fail with crossdressing or CD fiction that my life gets worse, more confused, more guilty, wastes my time, messes up my marriage, makes me feel distant from God, etc. etc. etc.

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  11. Vivienne says:

    Hi Thorin,

    I think you are right, that you and I both fit the AGP model as described on Cloudy’s blog. The other thing we have in common is a recognition that crossdressing can be harmful and a determination not to let it take the upper hand in our lives.

    Vivienne.

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