Crossdressing without sexual component?

In my last post, a lengthy conversation got started which included talk about how some transsexuals are those that used to be crossdressers.  They begin crossdressing in their youth and it has a sexual component in the beginning.  But as time goes on, and they crossdress for years and years, the sexual component starts to fade for some, and they feel more and more like they are really women (or that part of them is female and part male).  Some crossdressers leave it at this, and sort of live part time as women at home.  But others really think they are truly transgendered and then they begin living as a woman full-time or even get sexual reassignment surgery.

In my reading of many articles, blogs, and crossdressing websites, I have seen the full range.  I have seen some crossdressers just beginning their addiction and their crossdressing seems to be purely crazy sexual fetish that is out of control.  I have seen many crossdressers who say their crossdressing isn’t about sexual pleasure at all.  I have seen many crossdressers who say their crossdressing used to be sexual but it isn’t anymore.  They almost talk about it as if they have “matured” from that perverted childish sexual crossdressing, and now have taken it to a higher form.  The reasons they claim for doing it vary greatly.  Some say they do it for physical comfort.  Some do it for emotional security and comfort.  Some say they have to let out the female part of their identity from time to time.  Some do it for the thrill of pretending to be someone else.   Some think that part of them is in some real way truly female or that they are truly women, but have the wrong body.  And like I talked of in the first paragraph, I have read about many crossdressers who have become transsexuals, who did truly start out just like me, crossdressing for sexual or emotional pleasure.  Some may admit the progression that took place over the course of their lives.  Others might try to claim that they were truly transgendered all along.  I have a few comments to make about this.

 

First, why do crossdressers assume that crossdressing without a sexual component is somehow better, or more mature than crossdressing with a sexual component?  I don’t see the logic.  This seems reminiscent of old society that kept sex as a dirty secret, something that was necessary but shameful.  I believe sex and sexual pleasure to be a wonderful gift from God.  Not a dirty secret.  Not something to never talk about.  Not something to be ashamed about.   If I’m right, then to assume crossdressing is better just because it is not for sexual pleasure, that is an argument taking a big logical leap.  I would like to hear a better rational argument about why crossdressing without sexual pleasure is better.  One crossdresser I read said that he feels more feminine when not masturbating because he was trying to not focus on his penis to feel more like a woman.  But I don’t think that adds anything to the argument about which form of crossdressing is better.  There may be better arguments out there, but I have not heard them.    I do not think it is fair to cast crossdressing fetishists as messed up perverts and other crossdressers as those who just have a unique hobby.

Second, and fundamentally related to the above, why do crossdressers tend to assume that if crossdressing does not have a sexual component, than it must be morally okay?  Now, of course, many crossdressers do not think ANY kind of crossdressing is wrong as long as it is not directly hurting others.  They would say, if someone wants to masturbate at home while crossdressed, that’s fine.  But for those that believe, as I do, that crossdressing is wrong for moral, rational, and biblical reasons, again my question.  Why assume that only crossdressing with a sexual component is wrong, and not all crossdressing?  If crossdressing is a confused deceptive blurring of the boundaries of sex/gender that God has created, isn’t any form of crossdressing then wrong?   I’m not trying to get into the whole debate right here about the morality of crossdressing.  But I do challenge those who try to say one type of crossdressing is sinful, and another not, to really rethink that through.

Third, I think the attempt to separate crossdressing from sexuality, is an attempt by many crossdressers to legitimate to themselves that they are really transgendered.   They want to live full-time as a woman and want to convince themselves and family members that they are right to make the choice to do so.  And so they convince themselves that they are a worthy candidate of a sex change because sexual pleasure is no longer a component of their crossdressing.  They think they must have been truly transgendered all along, and the fetish was just temporary and coincidental.   This is then enough to push them over the edge to get a sex change.  But this I think is not only morally wrong, but could have disastrous consequences on the individual (not to mention consequences on family and relationships).   Why?  Because I don’t think that crossdressing without a sexual component is really any proof at all that one is truly transgendered.  You can read my earlier post, and conversation, for more reasoning about that.   And another reason it is not proof, is because I think crossdressing addictions naturally take a progression so that they become less and less about sexual pleasure.

 

So fourth, let me explain my last sentence.   I think it is only natural for crossdressing to take a progression in men’s lives, so that it begins very sexual and ends up not being so sexual.  Think about the comparisons between marriage and crossdressing.   I’ll put this in a sort of chart form.

  • Marriage begins with fiery romance and sexual passion.  It is near impossible to sleep up next to your wife without an erection all the time.
  • Crossdressing begins with fiery sexual passion and thrills.  It constantly is in one’s mind.  One only has to think about panties, or painted nails, or high heels to masturbate.  Wearing the clothing just takes it to a crazy sexual level that almost can ruin the clothing.

 

  • Marriage later on is still passionate, and there are still times for sex.  But you can now sleep next to your wife and kiss her and enjoy cuddling and it doesn’t have to be sexual.  In fact, at times it is nice to just cuddle together without worrying about having sex or getting an erection.  But when you want to have sex, you get naked and the fiery passion is there.
  • After crossdressing for a few years, it starts to become less blood rushing craziness, to slowing down and perfecting techniques for makeup and dressing.  You can now control when the ejaculation will come, and so you can wear women’s clothing even for a few hours with no problems and no worry about hurting the clothing.  Sometimes you enjoy putting on a skirt or dress just for the comfort and feeling of warmth that it brings.  At times, you don’t want to worry about getting the erections that you still get.

 

  • In marriage, later still, the fiery passion is beginning to wane.  You still have sex with your wife regularly but it’s harder than it used to be to maintain the passion.  In order to get the passion you both have to really prep for the event, wear sexy clothing, nice smelling perfumes, and plan a date night that works around the hectic schedule with your kids.  But you still get to sleep together in bed every night and it is so nice just to be together.   Being in the bedroom together, or just getting a minute alone with your spouse throughout the day is a refuge.  Your wife is your best friend.   Being with her brings you the closeness, and stability, and companionship you need.
  • In crossdressing, after many years, you begin to enjoy the comfort and closeness of your female persona more than the sexual pleasure.  You rarely crossdress for sexual pleasure anymore.  When you do, it takes more work to masturbate than it used to.  Simple dressing doesn’t cut it anymore to get you enough sexual pleasure.  You have to take yourself farther every time.  But now, crossdressing is more about being with this female companion of your creation.  When you dress up as her, you are with the woman who has become your refuge, stability, and companion.  During times of stress especially, you retreat to this refuge of crossdressing.  On some weekends you get alone, you spend the whole time dressed, and there is nothing sexual going on.  You even sleep in nightgowns at night and again there is nothing sexual to it.   You feel sexual while crossdressing, but it more like the emotional closeness in marriage when cuddling with your wife, not the sexual passion of an erection and ejaculation.

 

  • In marriage, in old age, the fiery passion is basically gone (but hopefully most older couples are still having sex occasionally).  But that passion has been replaced by unbreakable love and partnership built up over a lifetime together.  You are best friends and you can’t imagine living life without each other.  You are always together and yet many times you don’t even feel the need to talk.  Just knowing that your spouse is there with you, and there for you, is enough.  You are so intimate and close that it is like you know what the other person is thinking before they speak.  Your sexual energy is gone, but the emotional closeness is not.
  • In crossdressing, in “maturity”, the sexual component is completely gone.  Your created woman, made by crossdressing yourself, is just like your spouse of old age.   You cannot imagine life without this other woman.  She is your companion, your refuge.  She no longer needs to wear sexy clothes or go through constant outfit changes.  You just want her there with you constantly, no matter what.  You no longer want to be with her only sometimes, not only half the time.  She is no longer a part time person in your life.  She is your spouse.  You either wrestle with wanting to be with this woman all the time, for that closeness and intimacy and softness and feminine touch.  Or you actually truly become this woman full-time by getting a sex change.

Do you see the connections?  In marriage, sexual pleasure wanes, naturally so.   The more comfortable you get with your spouse, the more certain things that used to be sexual are no longer so.  I still enjoy holding my wife’s hand, but when we were dating, holding hands with her gave me an erection.  I can’t imagine that ever happening again.  In crossdressing, we also get used to things.  We get so used to dressing that the sexual pleasure fades.  We have to do more and more just to get the same pleasure.  Stories about crossdressing that used to give me pleasure as a kid, did absolutely nothing for me years later.  Stories I read had to get more and more extreme (not to mention immoral), for me to get the same pleasure.   Crossdressing by wearing just a pair of shoes used to be enough to make me go crazy with sexual pleasure.  But years later I could be fully dressed and still have trouble getting an erection.  I had to do more and more and try new things in my crossdressing to get the same pleasure.   And after that, I really really didn’t even want the sexual pleasure while crossdressing.  It was just a bother.  I wanted to be able to crossdress for hours without erections.  I wanted to just be dressed as a woman for weeks at a time, to live as a woman temporarily (yet my life did not allow me that).

I think crossdressers need to wake up and realize that sexual pleasure is about more than just ejaculation or orgasm.  Sexual pleasure can be in a broad range including just being attracted to someone, or just enjoying the closeness with your spouse.  It’s not all about masturbating.  For me, crossdressing I think was always sexual.  At the beginning it was just a random desire, and I didn’t have an ejaculation connected to it for years.  But it always had the same type of mysterious attraction and desire and even strange sort of excitement.  After many years of crossdressing and masturbating it was again becoming something that didn’t always include ejaculation.  But I believe the whole time it was about being with another woman, a woman of my creation who did what I wanted, and dressed how I wanted, who gave me sexual pleasure and closeness by being with her.

 

To conclude, I hope this post is helpful in just thinking through your own relationship to crossdressing.  I hope this post steers some of you away from thinking you are transgendered and living as a woman.  And for those of you who crossdress without a sexual component, I hope this post helps you to see that really all of these types of crossdressing amount to the same thing.  In my opinion, if crossdressing is sinful and messed up, it is sinful and messed up when connected to masturbation and when not connected to masturbation.  Whatever form it takes it is still about narcissistically creating a female companion, a spouse, a lover, using our own male body.  It is deceptive, isolating, lonely, distorted, and unnatural.  I believe that it is sinful.  God wants much more for us than this.  That is why he created marriage.  We can have a wonderful fulfilling flourishing happy relationship with a real woman of flesh and blood, with her own soul!  We don’t have to create a false spouse who is only an image in the mirror of a man in a dress.  God wants so much more for us!  Let us leave our crossdressing addictions, and enjoy the real life God wants for us!

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8 comments on “Crossdressing without sexual component?

  1. Ralph says:

    As always, a lot of food for thought. But I do have one ready answer. Where you ask why some of us think the sexual aspect is not OK while dressing just for comfort is… for the same reason that I believe masturbation is unhealthy (psychologically, not biblically). First, the more you associate sexual release with a specific activity, the more your mind connects the two until you REQUIRE that additional component — dressing, being tied up, wearing a specific type of underwear, whatever — in order to feel sexually fulfilled. Second, in a married relationship the more you provide your own sexual fulfillment the less you are providing to your spouse.

    Maybe I’m just splitting hairs, but that’s why I make the distinction.

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  2. thorin25 says:

    Ralph, I think that distinction makes some sense, now that I think about it more. However, needing CD in order to be sexually fulfilled might be less problematic than needing CD for hours each day for other reasons. Just practically speaking without getting into morality, CD for masturbation seems like it could be much less problematic in a marriage (quick and hidden), than CD for other reasons, which would probably be longer extended CD sessions. But anyway, you are right, there are some differences there.

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  3. Vivienne says:

    Hi Thorin,

    This is a thought-provoking and uncomfortable post indeed. Before I read Cloudy’s blog, I had considered that crossdressing for me was not a sexual thing, but instead an emotional or sensual thing. I realise now that I was wrong, and that I was basically lying to myself. That made me feel extremely uncomfortable about myself, and I am still wrestling with the ramifications of this discovery. I just don’t want to be associated with those people for whom crossdressing is a portal to a sexual lifestyle which I find distasteful and repellent.

    I think that for people to consider that crossdressing is a sexual thing makes it less legitimate somehow. I think that’s one of the reasons why people (in general) become so upset when any question of their gender is raised. I think you are quite right that some late-transitioning transsexuals are lying to themselves about what they feel or have felt during their lives, and I think that some transsexuals attempt to legitimise their standpoint by aligning themselves with intersex people or other groups with blurred gender.

    One further insight from Cloudy’s blog is that crossdressing isn’t a manifestation of femininity, but instead of masculinity. It’s just that the sexual attraction isn’t always pointed at other women, but sometimes (indeed, occasionally exclusively) at oneself as a woman. Cloudy calls this an “erotic target location error”.

    As you know (because we have debated this before) I don’t think crossdressing per se is wrong in any sense: not morally, not biblically. Rationally it’s a bit weird, I grant you that. The harm of it comes (IMHO) from the distraction it causes in what should otherwise be a balanced marriage. I have often used the analogy of golf. A man who spends too much money on the latest set of clubs, or fees, or togs; who spends long periods travelling on trips to play golf with his mates; who can’t get excited about anything unless it’s golf-related; that man has equally got a problem with his marriage. But mention this down the pub, and the golfer gets a wink and a knowing chuckle and the crossdresser gets a frown and a disgusted shake of the head. In the same way as crossdressing, golf is not intrinsically wrong; what makes it wrong is the degree to which it is pursued.

    I have often argued that we cannot be judged on our thoughts and feelings, only our actions. Crossdressing feelings have been present in me since my earliest memories. They will never go away, and I am not looking for a cure. What I seek to do is to find a way to assuage those feelings without causing harm to my marriage or my family. I cannot reasonably resolve those feelings in any other way, and I tend to believe that the occasional 18 holes does no harm and improves my mental wellbeing in many ways. Compromise, compromise.

    Vivienne.

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  4. thorin25 says:

    I agree with you and Cloudy, I think. It is an erotic target location error. It’s still heterosexual, being turned on by women, but in this case, the woman is our dressed up self. I have to agree mostly because basically my argument in this post assumes that.

    But it gets more complicated quickly. Don’t you think some of the late transitioners end up with men? Or do they all stay with women? And I think about all the crossdressing fiction I’ve read, so much of which quickly becomes homosexual. And I think about the fact that so many crossdressers are not so much attracted to women as much as they are attracted to men who look like women. I have fit in this camp somewhat in the past which is why I’d spend hours looking at crossdressing pictures. Was I crossing the heterosexual threshold, being attracted to something else, not quite man, not quite woman? Or was I just being attracted to the pictures because of the crossdressing notions it brought to my mind? I don’t know. And I know many crossdressers struggle with looking at shemales and transsexual porn. So again, I agree with you and Cloudy to some extent. But with all of the personality stuff involved, the feminine traits, the feeling comfortable with oneself while crossdressing, the desires to really live as a woman, and all this sexual stuff I just raised in this comment, I think there is often more going on than just a masculine heterosexual attraction. There is gender confusion involved, and even more sexual target location confusion involved. What do you think?

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  5. healed says:

    Great points Thorin. I guess I was to the comfortable point, little or no sexual pleasure, just a feeling of comfort.

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  6. Vivienne says:

    Hi Thorin,

    I don’t think it’s complicated at all. If you consider that the erotic target is the autogynephilic crossdresser, dressed, then it falls into place. The erotic target isn’t the partner at all. The arousal comes from the crossdresser engaging in acts which they find arousing to envisage their “inner woman” performing (e.g. fellatio or whatever). So for two transvestites to engage in sexual activity, each is pleasing not the partner, but themselves, with perhaps the erotic overlay of the scenario of two “women” in bed together.

    It seems clear from reading Cloudy’s blog (and from the few I have known) that many late-onset transsexual women prefer to be in a relationship with a genetic woman. I believe that’s because, deep down, they are not attracted to men at all, but only to the idea of themselves, as women, being sexually active with men. The actual day-to-day life with a male partner doesn’t hit the spot.

    Vivienne.

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  7. kay says:

    Some of your correlations between marriage and cross-dressing make sense for one who was looking to CDing for sexual satisfaction/masturbation, but that was never the case with me. And for me I never had the inclination when I was in a good relationship with a woman, only when things went south did I have the urge, so it was a way, in those cases, of getting some stress relief, but the point for me was never sexual gratification. My CDing did not begin “with fiery sexual passion and thrills” at all, and did not calm down from such a point. But I’m glad I didn’t know anything about it at the time, and also that the social climate then was not at all accepting, if I had grown up today I might have thought that I was transgender and followed through that idea. I don’t believe I am transgender, but I don’t reject the idea that some people are. But God is a God of the impossible, a God of miracles, and He can certainly bring healing even to the most seriously transgender folks. That being said, I have prayed to be free of CDing, have come against anything demonic involved standing on the shed blood of Jesus, but I still have the inclination, which makes me feel it is a psychological issue, not one of demonic oppression.

    I tend to disagree about the sin of CDing for sexual satisfaction being the same as CDing for other things, as I see the former as being an example of the sexual impurity mentioned in Gal. 5:19 and Col. 3:5, but I don’t see non-sexual CDing as sexual impurity. But I will be praying for further revelation concerning this.

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  8. Allan says:

    I believe cding can come because the male does not like conflicts with a female. So he has the conflict within himself. He can become both persons without the conflict. That is my struggle.

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