Guest Post – What Would God Say?

W.W.G.S.
(What Would God Say?)
I really wish that I had a nickel for every time that I asked that question. The short answer is that for me and my life, any form of cross-dressing is wrong. As is drunkenness, fighting, cursing etc. etc etc. Now if I had a huge following on this blog then certainly I will have a number of comments that will either say that I am wrong or bigoted, homo-phobic or my favorite, a hater. Isn’t it sad that we can no longer put out there to the world that we feel something is wrong, something that the world has put it’s stamp of approval on?  I myself have been in recovery for cross-dressing but I have other character defects as well such as co-dependency and fear of failure or success to name just a few.
I really think that it has more to do with whose ox is being gored. Personally I struggle with the transgendered community because I do know what it is like to question whether I was born the right gender but I don’t hate any one of those with that struggle. I just disagree and would really prefer not to have to be told that I MUST accept it as a normal and acceptable lifestyle. I just say that it is all about choice, it is a choice that is made to go in those directions and away from God. There I said it! You are going against God when you engage in those activities, whether it is cross-dressing, or any of the above, just place your sin in the blank________. Many people that I have conversed with have stated that they don’t really think that God gives a rip about whether they cross-dress and some have even stated that it is “morally neutral” as after all it is all about expressing oneself in ones true identity. But how could God not care? How could a loving God that is everywhere, knows everything and has been there since the beginning, not care what His creatures do with the life that He has given them?
What if God came down for to earth for an informal chat with us? What if He gave us His opinion about whether cross-dressing was a neutral thing? I believe that this question goes far deeper than Deuteronomy 22:5. I believe that God cares about whether a man cross-dresses or permits any kind of sin in his life.
This is my attempt to examine what God might say to all of us about this most perplexing topic.
Time:2013
Place: An office in Chicago
Recently, I have noticed an increase in the subject of cross-dressing and the entire spectrum of gender confusion. It would also seem that there are many in society today that are embracing this lifestyle as normative and acceptable. There are a few fringe organizations and groups that are also fighting this acceptance claiming that God would not approve of this kind of life. So, I made some calls and was lucky enough to have God come down to speak to us where we might finally get the answer to this most perplexing of questions. This then is the result of that meeting for your perusal:
God:
My children,  I am letting you know that I really don’t like many of the choices many of you have made over the years. You want to interpret what I said in the bible? What isn’t clear about what I have written through the men that I hand-picked? Like my prophet Isaiah:
“What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, ‘Stop, you’re doing it wrong!’ Does the pot exclaim, ‘How clumsy can you be?’
Do you truly understand the price that I have paid just to have you with me? Do you understand the deep love that I have had for all my children since the time of the first one? I am your father and as your father I guide you and direct you and when you veer from the path I have laid out for you, that which is the best path, then I must out of love help you to find the way back by your very choices. Choice is everything and my choice has always been out of love for you. Why do you feel that every time you hear or think of the word discipline, the corresponding word to you is punishment? Discipline is nothing more than training or correction. Have you forgotten my servant David? Did I withdraw my love or condemn him? What about my people the Jews? Did I punish them? Forget them? No, I love them and my love never fails! I correct and train up and teach all of my children that which will create in them the strength that is needed to arrive at the perfect place that I have planned. Do I say one thing and yet do another? How could I be perfect and want perfection and yet change my mind or be capricious?
When you ask for chapter and verse from my word to determine whether something is acceptable or not I weep. I gave you all you need in my book but you must read it with My help and not try to figure it out on your own. My desire is your perfection and what you wear is just a covering. The fact that it is termed as male or female will make no difference to me; but what I will hold you to is your intentions, your heart. I know that you all have “A Thorn” in your side but that thorn is there to let you know that you can’t do this life on your own. Perhaps what you need to look at is why you have those desires? Has it ever dawned on you that I did not create you to live this life alone. I want you to choose me and the great life that I have planned for your life. I created a desire in you to perform good works and I wanted it to be a gift that you would use for my glory, not yours.
Maybe I wanted you to be an artist or a designer and when you were young those kids you were with didn’t understand the gift that I gave you and they hurt you. Maybe those lines that I created between boys and girls got really faded because of something that happened to you as a child and you didn’t feel comfortable as a boy so you went the other way. You all have your stories and they all break my heart. Remember that for every story I have provided a way out so you don’t sin. Can you ask for me to show you the way out? Remember to choose me and I will make all things right for you. I want you to need ME, not some inanimate object!
I really love the song “You Are My All In All” I want my children to get their relaxation in me. I want your need to overcome fears to be fulfilled through me. I want all your struggles and pain and victories and joy to be in me and about me!   If in your heart you know that there is no “hook” in it when you want to wear the clothes, in other words, there is absolutely no feeling either mental or physical when you don an article of clothing, then why would it matter what covers your body?  Perhaps you should also ask yourself is this thing something that I would tell you is the “best” I have planned for you?
Paul was one of the great apostles, take a look at what I said through him in Romans:
Romans 12:1,2 – “Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.”
Is this how you might define what you do with your body? That it is a living sacrifice?
If you are doing what you are doing to “get” something out of it, then my child you are trading that something for what I would gladly give you. You are choosing some thing other than Me. How could I want that? What if your child found something to replace you and your love and grace? How would you feel?
I gave you the gift of choice because I want you to want to be with me, not forced or coerced to do something just because you think I might be pleased. When I said heart, soul and mind and strength, these were not empty words. I meant it and if anything is taking the place of me in your life, then you must look at that through the whole of the Bible.
Mark 12:30 says:

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
Don’t depend on one verse to define or redefine your behavior, just follow Me and keep learning. I did not make man and woman to be interchangeable beings; I gave you each specific gifts that are yours and yours alone. Be honest with yourself as you go through your days here. Does it even make sense that if everything I have created is perfect that I have now in 2013 changed my mind about the sexes you were created to be? I am your potter, I am your gardener and I am your God! I make no mistakes and you cannot “figure” me out. Just live your lives in my light and in my word and in my love and be with others so that you don’t beat yourself up so much. In your day all will be explained to you on that day.
I want you to trust me that I know all that you need and all that you require.
Trust Me!
God
Proverbs 3:5&6 says:
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
and do not rely on your own understanding;
6 think about Him in all your ways,
and He will guide you on the right paths.
Written by Andrew
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15 comments on “Guest Post – What Would God Say?

  1. A Quiet Voice says:

    I just finished reading both of your “Guest Posts”. Excellent Read!

    I would urge all your visitors here, both new and old to visit and/or re-visit these two posts.

    Lot’s of inspired wisdom

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  2. Wosret says:

    It’s a simply thing — how do you think it feels to be told that you’re wrong and sinful about something that you don’t think you are? When someone returns by calling you a bigot, or a hater, it is in an attempt to induce similar feelings in you. Tit for tat. Returning kind for kind. An eye for an eye. You may be right, and they may be wrong, but that doesn’t mean that it feels good to be accused of being immoral. Because they think you’re wrong, and want you to know what it feels like, they do something similar to you. This implies that they don’t actually believe that you are a hateful bigot, but rather ignorant, and need to be taught a lesson. To be taught how it feels.

    Someone that actually thought you were those things, would be doing what you’re doing, and making it political, and general. Many do think that religion particularly, and by extension the religious are hateful bigots, and make it a political issue, railing against religion.

    I attempt to explicate this very thing when I asked you what it would feel like if I were undermining your identity. It’s important to be empathetic, and compassionate, and to think about what it would feel like to be in their position.

    I’m not suggesting that you shouldn’t believe what you do, or express what you think and feel on the subject — only that you should worry about being tactful, and the ways in which you’re going about it. Avoiding emotive language, like “wrong”, and “sin”. If you use emotive language, so will a lot of others you’re speaking of in kind.

    You may think that it is justified to hurt them, because they are wrong, and you’re right — but they feel the same way about you. I personally would rather avoiding hurting people regardless of how wrong or right I think they are. I think it promotes a better world, then one where it is okay to hurt those we disagree with.

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  3. thorin25 says:

    Wosret, these are “guest posts” not my posts, they are written by Andrew, so I’ll let him speak for himself. I realize now these are not clearly marked who the author is, if you just come to these posts by way of the side and recent comments. On my guest post page they are marked as written by Andrew. I’ll edit these two guest posts to make clear that they are written by Andrew.

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  4. thorin25 says:

    For my part, I will tell you this. I believe certain things are sinful and certain things aren’t and I will speak about them, not only to help Christians who are mistaken about certain things, but also to wake up lazy Christians (like I often am, we need reminders and encouragements). It also is good to talk about these things with non-Christians so they will realize their sin, repent, and turn to God for forgiveness.

    Yes, it’s not fun to be told we are sinning, and it’s not fun to be told we are wrong. But if we never tell people, there is little chance of good dialogue and life change. I WANT people to tell me when I am wrong, so I can be right, and live rightly. If I am sinning, people should point it out and hold me accountable. If I am believing falsehoods, I don’t want to keep believing them, so people should point it out.

    If my beliefs offend someone else and they call me a bigot, so be it. I expect it. Hopefully instead though they will try to convince me of the error of my ways, and I can try to convince them, and hopefully we come to the truth together.

    I fully believe you can be compassionate, merciful, and understanding while telling someone they are sinning. I wish someone had talked to me about crossdressing as a sin before I delved in too deep.

    Andrew’s goal is not to hurt people, nor is it mine. Our goal is to help people have true abundant life, which cannot be found in sin, but rather in walking with Jesus.

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  5. Wosret says:

    Yes, I did assume that you had written them, despite them saying it was a guest. I should have guessed.

    You misunderstood what I was saying. I explicitly said that I’m not telling you to argue for your opinions, or not to hold your opinions.

    My point was simply that words like “wrongful” and “sin” are emotive words, and if through emotive words around, especially repeatedly, then you should expect your interlocutor to use emotive language back at you. It is rhetorical to use emotive language, it doesn’t add anything to the point you’re making, it just riles up the emotions.

    Surely you can make your point that such things are counter to Christian theology, and ethics, and have that conversation, without resorting to emotive language — but if you do, it is only to be expected that your interlocutor will similarly resort to emotive language.

    The post seems to be asking: “why would people use this hurtful words at me?”, and the answer is simply that you started it — not that you disagreed with them, or said what you thought, but that you used hurtful words to do it. Someone can also use circumlocution to avoid using words like “bigot”, and “hater” to make their point that you are those things, if they wanted to be tactful, and not simply insult you. It is done because they felt insulted by your emotive language, so they wish to insult you back by using emotive language themselves.

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  6. thorin25 says:

    Ah yes, I see what you are saying. It will be interesting to see what Andrew says about that. For me, I expect to get emotive reactions back, but that doesn’t bother me. I expect it.

    One point I disagree with you about though. I don’t think someone need feel “hurt” by someone saying that something they are doing is sinful. It doesn’t need to be construed as “hurtful language.” If I have a debate with a Muslim, we will both talk about where the other is wrong in their belief, and even could talk about what actions each does that we consider sinful, according to our different beliefs. I see no reason why I would be hurt by such language, or why the Muslim would feel hurt.

    Maybe this relates somewhat to my post about judgmentalism and tolerance. I’d be interested in your thoughts on it – https://healingcd.wordpress.com/2012/07/19/do-not-judge-or-you-too-will-be-judged/

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  7. Wosret says:

    Well, contrition I think is a fundamental concept in ethics, both theological, and secular. To feel remorse, to be crushed by guilt for wrong doings. If one doesn’t feel bad about being wrong, then there is something wrong with them — we usually call those people sociopaths, and psychopaths.

    I do want people that I think are wrong to be remorseful, to feel guilty, and not do it again — but in my view it is very important that they ultimately come to this conclusion for themselves. That this is something they must square up with themselves, and God; not me.

    I am perfectly capable of saying, “well, what about this point?”, or “have you considered this?”. Rather than “you’re wrong!” Which doesn’t itself add any content to your argument, and is only rhetorical, and for the purpose of making them feel bad, or making others feel certain ways about them. They are to rile up the emotions.

    If I am arguing with an emotion, and I start using the words “wrong”, and “sin”, then he probably will as well, and if he starts, I will probably begin using those words towards him as well. This does mean that I’m hurt, and squaring things with them. Getting even. I know that I said “you’re mistaken”, and used rhetorical language myself — it is extremely difficult not to do so, and all because I know why I’m doing it, and that it doesn’t add logically to my overall point, it is an important aspect of social interaction, and I do do it myself, but I try to sparingly, and less so than my interlocutor. That way I get to avenge myself, but also end up looking better than them for doing it less! Win, win! 😀

    I’ll check out that post.

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  8. A Quiet Voice says:

    “It’s a simply thing — how do you think it feels to be told that you’re wrong and sinful about something that you don’t think you are?”

    I can tell how it would make me feel. I would evaluate the argument being made based first of all on its source, and then I would weigh that argument against my own knowledge base and experience. I would consider the different cultural or educational background of the person making said argument and then make a judgment as to the value of said argument.

    In this case, based on your reaction, I would observe that you seem to be a relatively intelligent young man, overly impressed with himself, yet highly insecure. Much like most bullies, you seem driven to “win, win, win” and display a large amount of sophomoric hubris in your efforts to impress us with your self perceived brilliance. Sadly your efforts have resulted in an epic fail in that it seems you cannot even baffle us with your b******t. You have however succeeded in boring me to the point of annoyance. Is that your goal?

    If you must make your case here, why not try to state or explain simply, what it is that you are trying to say or justify. To me it seems just a bit rude to lecture us in a way that just displays your blind and arrogant ignorance. I mean seriously, I threw out the Tranny GLAAD-hand book, based on it’s ungodly premise. If you find my opinions and feelings offensive, I would suggest that that is your problem, not mine as I find your arrogance beyond offensive, and since you suggested an OT solution, I hope that I have met your standards of “an eye for an eye”.

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  9. Wosret says:

    Well, I definitely feel lectured… and it isn’t all about winning. I gave the smilie, because it isn’t really win, win, more than it is personally satisfying. Turning the other cheek is of course the moral high ground.

    Not that your analysis isn’t entirely off base, some of those things are true. I am arrogant and vain. I’m prideful, and self-righteous. This is why Christianity, and spirituality calls to me. Because I know that these are vices, that blind me, and delude me. I’m by no means perfect, and I wish to improve myself, and be a better person.

    I try to to consciously humble myself, and treat others as equals, but if I am obviously failing to do so, or my character is still of a low quality to you, then I am sorry to hear that. I’m trying to improve, but you don’t have to address me, especially when I haven’t addressed you — nor do you need to say “we”, and pretend to speak for more people than yourself, whom I’m sure can speak for themselves.

    If I am so offensive, than please feel free to ignore my posts. Thank you.

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  10. thorin25 says:

    A Quiet Voice, as I have tried to point out, you have to be careful with your language here. Please don’t make me tell you again. Wosret was not talking to you, and yet you jump in saying that he is full of hubris, insecurity, arrogance, ignorance, bullshit, etc. We are not here to discuss each others’ character, even if those things were true about him. We are looking at issues and arguments about crossdressing and related topics. This is not a place for personal attacks. A Quiet Voice, I’m glad to have you around, but not with language like that. And it’s fine to jump in on conversations other people are having, but when you do so, just speak to the issues at hand. Okay? Stick around! I’m not telling you to leave, but watch the language.

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  11. A Quiet Voice says:

    Thorin. Thank you for your patience an pointing out yet again my difficulty in conforming to those politically correct standards of inclusion and tolerance.

    The truth is that I am well aware of my abrasive nature and find it to be a serious handicap needing yet more work if I hope to be included and accepted in “polite society”.

    Sadly, I think it just may be too late for me. As I approach my seventh decade in this planet, I see little hope for my becoming more adept at hating the sin while loving the sinner. If someone is laying into me with a morally offensive war of words, I find it difficult to separate the assault from the individual perpetrating that assault.

    I know that Jesus called us to be like Him and turn the other cheek, but Jesus was the incarnation of God on Earth. I am but a mere mortal, forced to bear witness to the predations of those who’s intent is the ultimate destruction of Christian morality. In the words of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, ““Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”

    Here is an example of how the “gay” friendly media controls the language: (http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2013/12/01/censored-lesbian-outsmart-review-of-julia-seranos-excluded/)

    It is my concern that in our efforts to be loving and “inclusive”, we are ignoring the real danger of being marginalized as “haters and insensitive bigots”, and ultimately silenced in our efforts to speak truth to utter nonsense.

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  12. thorin25 says:

    Keep speaking the truth! But do so in love. People hearing the truth is what is most important. And for that to happen, us speaking the truth is not enough. We have to also talk about it in a way that people will listen.

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  13. A Quiet Voice says:

    I understand and I am thankful that there are those such as yourself with the patience to deal with the madness.

    I too enjoyed a classical education, studying the classics in the original Greek and Latin. Despite these tools, as well as advanced degrees in Psychology and Philosophy, I find that what mattered most, what has literally saved me from myself, has been my close and intimate relationship with my creator.

    All these words, all these attempts to explain those things about which we really have no clue are just personal conceits. I admire your efforts however, to engage with young Mr. Gilks, but I must confess that while intellectually amusing, I am at a loss how you can converse with “logic”(?) such as this:

    “The assumption I made is that you thought it wasn’t easy to understand, not that everyone else would. That is a rather larger assumption I would think, and one I certainly wouldn’t make.”

    huh???!

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  14. Dramaking55 says:

    Gentlemen, I have been under the weather for the past week so forgive the lateness of my reply.
    Quiet voice, I appreciate the comments made and I welcome any discourse you wish to have and I welcome you to this blog. I try to participate here as much as time allows and I would ask you and all who come here to read the posts and comment where you feel led. I also deplore all this PC crap, so I get what you are saying and also appreciate your defense. May God richly bless you.
    Wosret, I also welcome your comments and welcome your participation, but it would seem that you have misread my attempt to explain how I would interpret God coming down to my level and explaining His displeasure at how His world is “progressing” in this “enlightened” age. I cannot apologize for using words like “wrong” and “sin” because when Adam fell from grace in the garden we were all therefore cursed with sin. If you will also read in the beginning of my post, I go out of my way to say that this is how I view things and that this is my opinion only. You are free to disagree at anytime if they are not the ideals that you hold in your worldview. I must however judge whether a thing is wrong or sinful based on my biblical worldview because for me there is no other!
    I define my life based on a biblical worldview and who I am is whose I am which is Jesus Christ. I have no remorse if a person is offended by me or my actions unless and until they go against the worldview that I hold. For instance in my post I am trying as a finite being to try and say what I think God would say if we had him here. Now if a reader has no moral compass or doesn’t believe in absolute truth then they would most likely disagree with what was written. However as we have many people come to this blog who may just be “cultural Christians” I may say something in my post or comments that the Holy Spirit will use to convict that person to “turn from their wicked ways” and become more “biblical Christians”. The words wrong and sin cannot hurt another person unless they are being convicted that the path they are on is wrong and sinful and they are looking for any way to remove that sense of being convicted to turn to Christ. You are an educated man and perhaps very detail oriented and there are times when all we need to do is move that temporal knowledge 18 inches to the heart. Pray about it my brother!

    Blessings
    Andrew

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  15. Wosret says:

    I didn’t say not to use those words, or argue for your opinion. All I said what that you should expect, and not be puzzled by the consequences of doing so — by the reactions, and responses of doing so. If you are not “bigoted”, “homophobic”, or are “hater”, than you should be no more off put by being called one than someone is when you call them wrong, and a sinner, and becoming off put, or insulted by them doing so, is just as much a proof of their truth, as someone being off-put and insulted by being called “wrong” and “sinful”, without enacting some double standard.

    I wasn’t disagreeing with anything you said, or telling you not to say it. I was only saying that you should expect kind for kind, for people to use emotive language back at you. There should be no mystery as to why people are doing it, and if they aren’t true of you, then by your own reasoning, they shouldn’t bother you in the slightest.

    To be honest, I didn’t read the part where you pretended to speak for God. I find that sort of thing distasteful.

    Lastly, as for me being an “educated man”, I’m neither of those things.

    Thanks for the reply.

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